I guess overall the point I would make is that I think that nation-states and political entities are temporary and shifting. Other cultural trends tend to be more long-lasting. And I guess that’s why these trends have me more worried then some others here, and why I’ve spent some time posting about trends in places like Bangladesh or Pakistan. It is not a matter of holding Indian Muslims “responsible” for what happens in Bangladesh or Saudi Arabia or other parts of the Muslim world. These are matters of relevance to India, Islam, and terrorism, in my opinion, and in that context that I raise the discussion.

Look at the period following the British colonization of India, particularly in the late 1800s, and also specifically after 1906, when the British began delineating Indians very specifically along religious lines. Muslims responded to a decline in power, their minority status, and Western influence and domination, by becoming less ‘Indianized’, and more religiously strident – many of them essentially abandoning the composite Indo-Persian Islam for a more austere form of the religion. Remember that one of the biggest boosts for the Wahabbism that everyone complains about came from within India itself. And this process of cultural change (or “hardening”) coincided with a demographic jump in the number of Muslims (maybe on this last one – numbers back then were probably less precise).

Nationalism did not suffice to paper over the differences before, and partition and its aftermath have been a disaster. Of course, India is stronger now, and no longer colonized, and that’s a positive, so maybe things will, hopefully, turn out different this time, and regardless of demographic numbers, people’s rights and freedoms would be protected. But with the Indian state showing itself a real softie when it comes to security, law and order, that’s not a given.

As far as why I think that the “majority” of Indian Muslims support the role of Islam as an official religion, and the creation of an “Islamic” state, that opinion is based on my conversations with Indian Muslims. It’s not some extensive scientific survey, actually probably just based on 15-20 people or so, I admit that in context, that is a very small number. Most of them argue for secular India, but at the same time defend the right of Muslim-majority lands to be officially Islamic. I find it extremely hypocritical of them, and I interpret this to mean that for them, secularism is just a waiting game, even if otherwise they seem decent folks. Even on this specifically Indian Muslim blog, I’d estimate it’s been 50-50 with regards to a real committment to a secular order. Some folks have the attitude, don’t discriminate against me; but I’ll justify those who discriminate against you.

It is true that I have, obviously, not taken a sampling of all Indian Muslims, and determined their political views. I can only base my viewpoint on my personal experience, which is that educated, fairly affluent Indian Muslims almost inevitably support and justify the creation of Islamic states throughout the Muslim world. Several comments seem to indicate that this is an opinion specific to the educated middle and upper classes, not rooted in India; and that the poorer lot, which comprises most of Indian Muslims, may have a different view on this. Perhaps this is true, I cannot comment on this because I have not had any serious interaction with the poorer sections of Indian Muslims, particularly not any political or religious discussion of any sort.

But I would note that political Islam is the rising force within the Muslim world today, and that Indian Muslims are part of the Islamic world, not something unique or isolated within it. Political Islam has marginalized and persecuted non-Muslims in Iran, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Malaysia, and, increasingly, Indonesia, and, within non-Muslim countries, has created havoc in Kashmir, South Thailand, and the South Phillipines. Imagine Gujurat, but spread over a much wider geographic area, and a greater level of persecution. And this is only within India’s immediate neighborhood, not even mentioning the more global situation.

One would have to be quite blind not to be concerned that Muslim-majority areas will not be transformed into places where those who do not believe will find themselves out of luck. Given time, these things can happen, in fact, have happened in other parts of the world, and, in fact, in other parts of what used to be India.

1947 should have ended it. Instead, India is once again caught in its historical struggle/process of Islamic conquest. We should have known better, we should have stopped this before it could start again. I don’t blame Muslims for this fact, because Islam is Islam, it has its own beauty, which I respect, but I also view it as an imperialistic and expansive force. To be clear, I know that there are other such forces in the world, too, like Zionism, and others. And this does not make me hate – in fact I like Jewish people, just as I like Muslims; but still, I understand that certain ideologies can have devastating consequences for those who find themselves on the wrong side of the tracks.

Girish, I’m looking forward to your response when you get a chance. I feel we have the same general information, and type of outlook; and surely personal experience cannot explain the entire difference in our opinions on this. What is that you see, that reassures you, that I’m not seeing? To me, in 50 years, I see Northeast India, and perhaps other parts, becoming Bangladesh – and that doesn’t mean all Bengali-speakers- that means an Islamic state within which non-Muslims have been marginalized and persecuted out of existence. Terror is a tool that will hasten the process, and that’s what we’re seeing now.

When you talk about superiority, let me give you an example of traditions. Indians believe that their culture and traditions are better because we have respect for elders, distant relatives etc. while as per the current American culture in corporates you address your boss with his first name, even thought he may be of your father’s age.

Anis, what matters is whatever tradition or part of culture works for a person. For someone, it could be saying “ji” to all elders, for others, it could be not automatically giving respect to all elders. One custom is not superior over the other – it’s simply a matter of what works. All cultures change. I have seen lots of good things in the Western culture and I’ve seen many negatives in Indian culture. The key is to combine the best of the two. Rejecting everything Western because it is Western is something I would not condone.

Everyone has a right to believe that he is special. Why should it be a problem for others?

I do believe that my mother is the most beautiful woman on earth. And everyone has a right to believe so.

There is no end to these facts, I wish only those who feel and understand this, read my comment.

There is no point in arguing about this over and over again. Sahil wrote a very positive closing note, sadly there are no ears for the voices of harmony in the world full of Islamphobic propaganda. I have just been through surfing quickly the likes of Robert Spenser, blogs like Jihadwatch, Dhimmiwatch, and other magazines, and I had never imagined there would be so much hatred around for a religion that has 1 billion followers. The more propoganda they do, the more they bring Muslims closer to their religion. What Islamophibics hate even more is the guts of Muslims, because Muslims are hated, bombed, humiliated and despite all that they cling to their religion because of which they have to bear all this. Anyway, our teachers are not Islamophics but our Prophet (peace be upon him) who taught us lasting human values that will stay with us, and will always give us peace no matter how worse the times are.

Indian culture better? thats again not my view. there are some things good abt our culture and some bad. same applies to the american culture. we try to take the best from the two without feeling a sense of superiority abt it, as that’s just ego. don’t we use english here? learn modern science? isn’t democracy a western concept? calling boss by name doesn’t mean disrespect and calling someone ‘ji, sahab, chacha, mama’ etc doesn’t necessarily mean respect. i also don’t find ppl who use tissue disgusting, may be less hygienic. differences of course exist, but finding others less than us, somehow deficient in culture, race, faith etc is just recipe for injustice, intolerance and hatred. isn’t belief in superiority of race and culture called imperialism, apartheid, racism? but for some reason belief in superiority of faith has been glorified in the name of God, the same all merciful Allah that created me and u. wake up sir, feel the mercy and love of God for everyone. only then is religion useful.

We all are hindus and muslims by birth. None of us have chosen our paths, neither by divine experience nor by direct knowledge. We just got our paths defined and therefore our enmity or our diferences have also been by birth. If you just look around and with a deep conscious breath see everyone then we all are part of same malkiyat. There is no need to prove or fight for our religions and neither to prove the supremacy and the need to find faults with others.

Hindus and Muslims are streams apart. I laugh when I hear some people trying to find common ground between the 2 religions or talking about Hindu Muslim unity. No there is no need of that. The need to however understand is that Allah(Merciful) did not produce one flower nor did he gave birth to one language. The beauty of humanity is that their is bound to be differences. We just need to accept and be overjoyed that each one is able to think differently.

I personally respect Hinduism and I derive my spiritualism from Islam. But I do not feel at all different from any Indian out there. I am proud and thank Allah(Merciful) that he gave me birth on this land. It was his will that I be born here and therefore to work according to his will I have to work to make this land more beautiful and be happy and proud of the same as well.

Dear Hindu brethren when I say that there is no need to find a common ground is because we do not have anything in common. In Islam making a statue of even prophet mohammad is a sin. But then I do not feel at all different when I see my Hindu friends praying to their Gods. How and what difference will it make if there were all muslims or all hindus on this earth. We are made to think differently. We will still be fighting for other reasons.

I pray to Allah that the Hindus and Muslims make this land prosperous rather than destroy it trying to spread their own religions because then the very beauty for which it stands will vanish. 1000 years under Muslim rule and yet there are enough Hindus. I think and then feel that this is Allah’s(Merciful) will to keep the beauty of this land.

In Name of Allah(Merciful)
Sahil

When I cite examples it is by no means to justify atrocities of any community. My simple point is that a government when comes with hard hand can stop any rioting crowd. Mob psychology is different than a common man’s pscyhology, a person may not break glass of a public building in normal circumstands but this is the first thing they do when they protest as mob. This is what our governments need to ensure, whether rioters are from any community they should be dealt with heavy hand from the first instance. Otherwise, it starts wave of rumours and suspicion, that further goes on causing rioting.

SIMI was a Pakistani organization and it never held grounds among popular masses. I think its banned since long and it might have agenda to destablize India, yet I don’t think many Muslims are going to be fooled with it. Indian Muslims have so many problems of their own to know what SIMI is and what it wants. Pakistan’s ISI and India’s RAW are only meant to operate for foreign countries as cold war tactics, yet they agenda seldom gets popular support.

Most of the Muslims have strong faith in Islam, that doesn’t mean that they consider other humans to be less important. The whole concept of five times prayers is that you get to stand shoulder to shoulder with all kinds of people, even smelly beggars, yet you accept the equality of human beings with humility. When I quote rights of neighbours hadith and Quran that is to reflect acknowledgement of human values and appreciation of the same. Imagine if all Muslims follow only this aspect in their practice. Quran makes it clear in Sura Kafiroon: (109:4-6) “And I shall not worship that which ye worship. Nor will ye worship that which I worship. Unto you your religion, and unto me my religion.”

When you talk about superiority, let me give you an example of traditions. Indians believe that their culture and traditions are better because we have respect for elders, distant relatives etc. while as per the current American culture in corporates you address your boss with his first name, even thought he may be of your father’s age. We believe our traditions are better and they believe their culture is better. And Indian can never be satisfied with tissue paper alone in the toilets while westerners hate to use water. We will find them disgusting and they find us disgusting for that reason. These differences do exist and thats why we human are split into several races and cultures. We don’t have to be homogenic, we will never be, all we need to do is to appreciate the differences and respect the human values.