Comments on: Muslims Are In India’s Mainstream http://indianmuslims.in/muslims-india-mainstream/ A Window Into The Indian Muslim Life Sat, 03 Jul 2010 11:20:27 -0700 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0 By: Sayed Wasim http://indianmuslims.in/muslims-india-mainstream/comment-page-2/#comment-55627 Sayed Wasim Tue, 10 Mar 2009 19:11:52 +0000 http://indianmuslims.in/?p=2290#comment-55627 As Salamu Aliekum.... Brother RamK: I very well know that EU(group of countries) and China are the biggest exporter of non-veg products, but India is growing very fast, specially in the leather products and goods made out of it... Jai Hind... Wassalam... As Salamu Aliekum….

Brother RamK:

I very well know that EU(group of countries) and China are the biggest exporter of non-veg products, but India is growing very fast, specially in the leather products and goods made out of it…

Jai Hind…

Wassalam…

]]> By: Sudie http://indianmuslims.in/muslims-india-mainstream/comment-page-2/#comment-55626 Sudie Tue, 10 Mar 2009 17:34:42 +0000 http://indianmuslims.in/?p=2290#comment-55626 "If people like Sudie had worried about the thousand killed in 2002, more Indians could have worried about the other thousands who get killed." Naqqaad Lots of Indians were sad about the Gujrat riots and many are doing something about it - both Hindus and Muslims. Surely a lot more of us should have been disgusted at what happened and it’s a shame of any civilized society that depraved individuals like Togadia, Babu Bajrangi still seem to be evading the law. But many a time, to change the system, one has to be part of the system. More importantly, we should look beyond our religious "blinkers" and understand that these are crimes against humanity. Once these bigots realized that minorities cannot be isolated, they will have lesser courage to do their depravities. The society that has to mature enough not to be mislead and should force the govt, to act. Fact remains that post 2002, we have not had any major riots; even in Gujrat, the govt. was able to prevent any major recurrences. If the "system" works, all of us will be better of. For that we have to be part of the system. Talent and hard work, at least in India, still gets rewarded – perhaps not at the speed we want them to. In India, there are no ethnic or racial differences like it is in the US. We need to look beyond religion into common grounds – our professions, our education and our collective interests that should have greater reasons to bind us. “If people like Sudie had worried about the thousand killed in 2002, more Indians could have worried about the other thousands who get killed.”
Naqqaad
Lots of Indians were sad about the Gujrat riots and many are doing something about it – both Hindus and Muslims. Surely a lot more of us should have been disgusted at what happened and it’s a shame of any civilized society that depraved individuals like Togadia, Babu Bajrangi still seem to be evading the law. But many a time, to change the system, one has to be part of the system. More importantly, we should look beyond our religious “blinkers” and understand that these are crimes against humanity. Once these bigots realized that minorities cannot be isolated, they will have lesser courage to do their depravities.
The society that has to mature enough not to be mislead and should force the govt, to act. Fact remains that post 2002, we have not had any major riots; even in Gujrat, the govt. was able to prevent any major recurrences. If the “system” works, all of us will be better of. For that we have to be part of the system. Talent and hard work, at least in India, still gets rewarded – perhaps not at the speed we want them to. In India, there are no ethnic or racial differences like it is in the US. We need to look beyond religion into common grounds – our professions, our education and our collective interests that should have greater reasons to bind us.

]]> By: RamK http://indianmuslims.in/muslims-india-mainstream/comment-page-2/#comment-55602 RamK Tue, 10 Mar 2009 02:36:42 +0000 http://indianmuslims.in/?p=2290#comment-55602 Many muslims are ofcourse part of mainstream in the sense of contributing to the society,especially you find many of them in the field of technology,sports and arts. Plenty own small businesses, are they not mainstream?Many more need to be brought in just like in any other community. Wasim, India is not a major meat exporter. China , EU etc are large meat producers. http://www.thepoultrysite.com/articles/955/meat-products-competition-from-low-cost-countries http://www.fas.usda.gov/dlp2/circular/1997/97-10LP/oct97lp1.htm Many muslims are ofcourse part of mainstream in the sense of contributing to the society,especially you find many of them in the field of technology,sports and arts. Plenty own small businesses, are they not mainstream?Many more need to be brought in just like in any other community.

Wasim,
India is not a major meat exporter. China , EU etc are large meat producers.

http://www.thepoultrysite.com/articles/955/meat-products-competition-from-low-cost-countries

http://www.fas.usda.gov/dlp2/circular/1997/97-10LP/oct97lp1.htm

]]> By: M Naqqaad http://indianmuslims.in/muslims-india-mainstream/comment-page-2/#comment-55588 M Naqqaad Mon, 09 Mar 2009 18:06:24 +0000 http://indianmuslims.in/?p=2290#comment-55588 I have only one dilemma, that is what is the 'mainstream' of India. Do we need to have a stream of Hitler of the Zionists? If we do not have any of this type, the better. Now, the worry is we are about to get people who point out others ignoring the follies of their own. If people like Sudie had worried about the thousand killed in 2002, more Indians could have worried about the other thousands who get killed. For most of Indians, getting a pay out of governement job and paying tax is being in mainstream while their stream of work (duty) is drying by the day. Is anobody there to care India as a whole instead of making a 'hole' in it to suck his/her share, due or undue? I have only one dilemma, that is what is the ‘mainstream’ of India. Do we need to have a stream of Hitler of the Zionists? If we do not have any of this type, the better. Now, the worry is we are about to get people who point out others ignoring the follies of their own. If people like Sudie had worried about the thousand killed in 2002, more Indians could have worried about the other thousands who get killed. For most of Indians, getting a pay out of governement job and paying tax is being in mainstream while their stream of work (duty) is drying by the day. Is anobody there to care India as a whole instead of making a ‘hole’ in it to suck his/her share, due or undue?

]]> By: RamK http://indianmuslims.in/muslims-india-mainstream/comment-page-2/#comment-55586 RamK Mon, 09 Mar 2009 17:33:03 +0000 http://indianmuslims.in/?p=2290#comment-55586 Yes, agreed some exaggerations? but still doesn't it show what defined them? what was considered meritorious? True, may be there was competition between sufis and kings to prove who converted more. Lastly, How did imposition of persian(Foreign) language and culture on a culturally well developed India at the cost of the growth of it's own indegenious culture and languages , a contribution to India? In America, people migrate and contribute to diversity. That must be highly appreciated. But if imposed, how can we complain people are getting rid of it, especially if it is of no use. Many English officers actually worked to understand and develop local languges. I am not comfortable if sanghparivar desends medieval times on me by razing of places of worship . But i am also not comfortable, when those who have not condemned in clear terms the medieval acts but rationalize (Jiziya,etc)or escape saying that it was too long ago or trivialize condemn sanghparivar for the acts of One pragnya and one purohit who are not yet tried.strangely, the clear condemnation of those acts I ever heard was from pakistani secular writers. Renaissance is not about a few scientific improvements. It is about questioning tradition, religion and beliefs. Emphasis of empiricism over personal beliefs and experiences. Proof matters not might. If interested Links to ain-e-akbari,Akbarnama and many other translations of persian works on Indian History.This is no hindutwa or hate site http://persian.packhum.org/persian/main True, Azvar traditions are much before sufism in India. Most of the Azhvars were non-brahimns. According to modern linguistic methods between 3rd and 8th century CE. Yes, agreed some exaggerations? but still doesn’t it show what defined them? what was considered meritorious? True, may be there was competition between sufis and kings to prove who converted more.
Lastly, How did imposition of persian(Foreign) language and culture on a culturally well developed India at the cost of the growth of it’s own indegenious culture and languages , a contribution to India? In America, people migrate and contribute to diversity. That must be highly appreciated. But if imposed,
how can we complain people are getting rid of it, especially if it is of no use. Many English officers actually worked to understand and develop local
languges.
I am not comfortable if sanghparivar desends medieval times on me by razing of places of worship . But i am also not comfortable, when those who have not condemned in clear terms the medieval acts but rationalize (Jiziya,etc)or escape saying that it was too long ago or trivialize condemn sanghparivar for the acts of One pragnya and one purohit who are not yet tried.strangely, the clear condemnation of those acts I ever heard was from pakistani secular writers.

Renaissance is not about a few scientific improvements. It is about questioning tradition, religion and beliefs. Emphasis of empiricism over personal beliefs and experiences. Proof matters not might.
If interested Links to
ain-e-akbari,Akbarnama and many other translations of persian works on Indian History.This is no hindutwa or hate site

http://persian.packhum.org/persian/main

True, Azvar traditions are much before sufism in India. Most of the Azhvars were non-brahimns. According to modern linguistic methods between 3rd and 8th
century CE.

]]> By: RamK http://indianmuslims.in/muslims-india-mainstream/comment-page-1/#comment-55585 RamK Mon, 09 Mar 2009 17:27:54 +0000 http://indianmuslims.in/?p=2290#comment-55585 Ain-e-akbari gives a very detailed picture of Many royal facilities, including what was fed to leopards and salaries of gaurds at harem. But fails to give an account of common man's life. But can I isolate it from Mirat sikandari or mirat -i-ahamdi? Is it sangh parivar imagination that safety in return was gauranteed for conversion to Islam. Shall I forget what was done to raja Mandalik?( 1472-73AD.)Should I forget discrimination based on religion favoured Muslims for far too long than Akbar's rule. Aurangazeb --- Custom duties were abolished on the Muslims and doubled on the Hindus.Should I forget temples were razed and in their place mosques were built with money collected mostly from hindus, give advantage point to Muslim side story in ayodhya case?Shall I froget the uncivilized way Idols were treated? Shall I pick and choose only akbar and Taj? Read all those works, HAZRAT AMĪR KHUSRAU’S KHAẒĀ’INUL FUṬŪḤ and many more not by saffron brigade but by muslims associated with those rulers, then come to honestly argue that sword had nothing to do. Then tell me if muslims in India gain by associating with them or become easy targets for sanghParivar? Is it all acceptable to modern muslims of India? if not why identify with them? Based on what facts do muslims of India keep repeating that muslim rule was secular and peacefull coexistence. Who are we kidding when some repeat that Muslim-Hindu divisions are british creation? Don't all those works reflect the hindu muslim divide in the minds of the rulers. How does it satisfy the high standard of secularism of Muslims but not the Modern Indian state? Is it rational? Have the Ashrafs, who ruled actually ever identify with Indian Muslims?(Indian Converts?). Why such hurry among Indian muslims to identify with those? If so why did they impose persian? Money was collected and used for inventions that protected their power or improved their revenue. When Fatehpur Sikri was being built, Oxford was built as modern university. when TajMahal was being built for one's ego, Harvard was being built. modern values were not brought into India. Common man was not central to any decisions. Only to the extent of the improvement of revenues. Many restrictions were placed at different point of time on Hindus(They were many more in numbers) on carrying arms riding horses or palkis, Dressing, wearing symbols of religion. These times far exceed the rule of Akbar. So how do we down play and say hindus remember only ghazanis, khilzis, ghouris, and Aurangazeb. Don't we really see that they far exceed in numbers? Then how can one travel to medieval times and praise Akbar and come back? Why are muslims not applying same rule to Modi's development? Or the existence of sanghaparivar politics have nothing to do with secularism of India? Ain-e-akbari gives a very detailed picture of Many royal facilities, including what was fed to leopards and salaries of gaurds at harem. But fails to give an account of common man’s life. But can I isolate it from Mirat sikandari or mirat -i-ahamdi? Is it sangh parivar imagination that safety in return was gauranteed for conversion to Islam. Shall I forget what was done to raja Mandalik?( 1472-73AD.)Should I forget discrimination based on religion favoured Muslims for far too long than Akbar’s rule. Aurangazeb — Custom duties were abolished on the Muslims and doubled on the Hindus.Should I forget temples were razed and in their place mosques were built with money collected mostly from hindus, give advantage point to Muslim side story in ayodhya case?Shall I froget the uncivilized way Idols were treated? Shall I pick and choose only akbar and Taj? Read all those works, HAZRAT AMĪR KHUSRAU’S KHAẒĀ’INUL FUṬŪḤ and many

more not by saffron brigade but by muslims associated with those rulers, then come to honestly argue that sword had nothing to do. Then tell me if muslims in India gain by associating with them or become easy targets for sanghParivar? Is it all acceptable to modern muslims of India? if not why identify with them?

Based on what facts do muslims of India keep repeating that muslim rule was secular and peacefull coexistence. Who are we kidding when some repeat that Muslim-Hindu divisions are british creation? Don’t all those works reflect the hindu muslim divide in the minds of the rulers. How does it satisfy the high standard of secularism of Muslims but not the Modern Indian state? Is it rational? Have the Ashrafs, who ruled actually ever identify
with Indian Muslims?(Indian Converts?). Why such hurry among Indian muslims to identify with those? If so why did they impose persian? Money was collected
and used for inventions that protected their power or improved their revenue. When Fatehpur Sikri was being built, Oxford was built as modern university.
when TajMahal was being built for one’s ego, Harvard was being built. modern values were not brought into India. Common man was not central to any decisions. Only to the extent of the improvement of revenues. Many restrictions were placed at different point of time on Hindus(They were many more in numbers) on carrying arms riding horses or palkis, Dressing, wearing symbols of religion. These times far exceed the rule of Akbar. So how do we down play and say hindus
remember only ghazanis, khilzis, ghouris, and Aurangazeb. Don’t we really see that they far exceed in numbers? Then how can one travel to medieval times and praise Akbar and come back? Why are muslims not applying same rule to Modi’s development? Or the existence of sanghaparivar politics have nothing to do with secularism of India?

]]> By: Milind Kher http://indianmuslims.in/muslims-india-mainstream/comment-page-1/#comment-55578 Milind Kher Mon, 09 Mar 2009 16:32:28 +0000 http://indianmuslims.in/?p=2290#comment-55578 Brother Wasim, Salamun Aleikum. I still maintain that Muslims are in the mainstream. Do you know that Muslims are running good caterin colleges, management institutes and coaching classes too? In business too, you have Azim Premji, Habil Khorakiwalla and others. The Allanas are the biggest meat exporters from India. So, let's keep up the momentum! Brother Wasim,

Salamun Aleikum. I still maintain that Muslims are in the mainstream. Do you know that Muslims are running good caterin colleges, management institutes and coaching classes too?

In business too, you have Azim Premji, Habil Khorakiwalla and others. The Allanas are the biggest meat exporters from India.

So, let’s keep up the momentum!

]]> By: zakir hyderabadi http://indianmuslims.in/muslims-india-mainstream/comment-page-1/#comment-55541 zakir hyderabadi Sun, 08 Mar 2009 23:49:02 +0000 http://indianmuslims.in/?p=2290#comment-55541 I never thought, i am out side the mainstream of India. As this situation never happened to me. Actually i think it is in north India, that Muslims are wantedly isolated from mainstream by some people. Thank God, South India is clean from those type of people, though they are trying to increase their influence in South also, But i am sure they will never ever succeed in their dream. @brother sudie, Every citizen of India have the right to speak, it is a fundamental right, you cannot tell people to do that and don't do that, right. So, if some people raises their voice against violence in Palestine and Iraq, it is their right. And frankly speaking i got frustrated when you said"and not bother when Indians get killed anywhere in India". See dude, we are Muslims, But Indian Muslims, So we have the same love and patriotism towards India, as our other religion counterparts have. Please avoid biased type of secularism. I never thought, i am out side the mainstream of India. As this situation never happened to me. Actually i think it is in north India, that Muslims are wantedly isolated from mainstream by some people. Thank God, South India is clean from those type of people, though they are trying to increase their influence in South also, But i am sure they will never ever succeed in their dream.
@brother sudie, Every citizen of India have the right to speak, it is a fundamental right, you cannot tell people to do that and don’t do that, right. So, if some people raises their voice against violence in Palestine and Iraq, it is their right. And frankly speaking i got frustrated when you said”and not bother when Indians get killed anywhere in India”. See dude, we are Muslims, But Indian Muslims, So we have the same love and patriotism towards India, as our other religion counterparts have. Please avoid biased type of secularism.

]]> By: Sayed Wasim http://indianmuslims.in/muslims-india-mainstream/comment-page-1/#comment-55536 Sayed Wasim Sun, 08 Mar 2009 19:22:41 +0000 http://indianmuslims.in/?p=2290#comment-55536 As Salamu Aliekum(peace be upon all of you)... Mainstream:The prevailing current of thought... Are Muslims really in the mainstream??? This is a very simple question to answer. The answer is NO... My Question will be..Are Muslims really contributing in the growth of our country??? Now, the answer is more simple.YES Muslims are directly or indirectly contributing in the growth of our country... It's good to see, brother Kaleem Kawaja writing about Mughal's and there contribution in India for some 3 to 4 centuries.But till date they are contributing, by collection of taxes from there Palaces, Mahals, monuments, by the sale of books written for and mostly against them, there gardens, the way they took Indian Market, Culture to new heights(which was already well developed) and the number of people employed in all these activity.Even the Queen of England in 15th century wrote an Letter to King Akbar for his contribution and his unique style of running our country, like many others even I have many reservation against the so call Great Akbar and Mughal Kingdom... Anyways, getting back to topic yes Muslims are very much contributing in the growth of the country. The Muslim who is begging on the streets, who purchase goods at the end of the day from the money collected, the Muslims who is working on the there own fields or as workers on others fields, the Madrasa's, the Muslims School's, College's, Small shops to big Industries, to contribution in civil,social,defense,Cultural,Traditional, and so on... Those who think, Muslims are mere Burden on Tax payers, can't wear head cap and keep bread even at there work place or in general, who thinks we are only for protesting the violence against Muslims around the worlds, those who thinks we are only SIMI's, IM's, pro Pakis and so on, Please open your eyes and look around and see Muslims are changing and they are making ways for there next generation. They are moving towards Education, Employment, Civil, defense, social, politics and so on... We are one of the biggest contributor in Indian export Industry. India is one of the biggest exporter of Non-veg products and products made out of it... On National front, we do purchase goods and services and we do sale our goods and services in the country it's self(specially in the month of Ramadan, we spend lot of money on food and clothing, the one who is most benefited is India), many Muslims work abroad and they do bring foreign currency to India, we do benefit government and many Airline companies(specially the Indian Airlines and Air India)... But, it is very well know fact that, only more then 10% Muslims are above poverty line in villages and the rest in cities are mostly fighting for there basic needs and so on.... Times are changing, i would call my Muslim brothers and sisters, please first we need to bring change in our own mind set and start working in the mainstream with our Indian Brothers and Sisters more closely... I'm an amateur thinker and writer, there may be some holes in my thinking and writing, but what i wanna suggest is, first Basic needs by proper and joint system of Zakat(charity), then education, more in police,defense services,civil services,employment in corporate world, self-employment, entrepreneur and so on, our Ulemas need to talk more about Duniya(world) in there talks and need to teach more about Din(Religion) to our Youths... Yes, Muslims aren't in the mainstream but the day is not far, when Muslims will be one of the leading force in the Great Indian Dream... Oh, Allah(swt) please guide us to the path of those who walk and achieve there Goals(both in religion and world)...Aameen... Jai Hind Wassalam... As Salamu Aliekum(peace be upon all of you)…

Mainstream:The prevailing current of thought…

Are Muslims really in the mainstream???
This is a very simple question to answer. The answer is NO…

My Question will be..Are Muslims really contributing in the growth of our country???
Now, the answer is more simple.YES Muslims are directly or indirectly contributing in the growth of our country…

It’s good to see, brother Kaleem Kawaja writing about Mughal’s and there contribution in India for some 3 to 4 centuries.But till date they are contributing, by collection of taxes from there Palaces, Mahals, monuments, by the sale of books written for and mostly against them, there gardens, the way they took Indian Market, Culture to new heights(which was already well developed) and the number of people employed in all these activity.Even the Queen of England in 15th century wrote an Letter to King Akbar for his contribution and his unique style of running our country, like many others even I have many reservation against the so call Great Akbar and Mughal Kingdom…

Anyways, getting back to topic yes Muslims are very much contributing in the growth of the country. The Muslim who is begging on the streets, who purchase goods at the end of the day from the money collected, the Muslims who is working on the there own fields or as workers on others fields, the Madrasa’s, the Muslims School’s, College’s, Small shops to big Industries, to contribution in civil,social,defense,Cultural,Traditional,
and so on…

Those who think, Muslims are mere Burden on Tax payers, can’t wear head cap and keep bread even at there work place or in general, who thinks we are only for protesting the violence against Muslims around the worlds, those who thinks we are only SIMI’s, IM’s, pro Pakis and so on, Please open your eyes and look around and see Muslims are changing and they are making ways for there next generation. They are moving towards Education, Employment, Civil, defense, social, politics and so on…

We are one of the biggest contributor in Indian export Industry. India is one of the biggest exporter of Non-veg products and products made out of it…
On National front, we do purchase goods and services and we do sale our goods and services in the country it’s self(specially in the month of Ramadan, we spend lot of money on food and clothing, the one who is most benefited is India), many Muslims work abroad and they do bring foreign currency to India, we do benefit government and many Airline companies(specially the Indian Airlines and Air India)…

But, it is very well know fact that, only more then 10% Muslims are above poverty line in villages and the rest in cities are mostly fighting for there basic needs and so on….
Times are changing, i would call my Muslim brothers and sisters, please first we need to bring change in our own mind set and start working in the mainstream with our Indian Brothers and Sisters more closely…

I’m an amateur thinker and writer, there may be some holes in my thinking and writing, but what i wanna suggest is, first Basic needs by proper and joint system of Zakat(charity), then education, more in police,defense services,civil services,employment in corporate world, self-employment, entrepreneur and so on, our Ulemas need to talk more about Duniya(world) in there talks and need to teach more about Din(Religion) to our Youths…

Yes, Muslims aren’t in the mainstream but the day is not far, when Muslims will be one of the leading force in the Great Indian Dream…

Oh, Allah(swt) please guide us to the path of those who walk and achieve there Goals(both in religion and world)…Aameen…

Jai Hind

Wassalam…

]]> By: Sudie http://indianmuslims.in/muslims-india-mainstream/comment-page-1/#comment-55478 Sudie Sat, 07 Mar 2009 09:24:43 +0000 http://indianmuslims.in/?p=2290#comment-55478 "Would I be considered in mainstream India if I have beard/skull cap and have madrassa education and opposes Sangh parivar idealogy of hatred" I can speak for myself...whats you wear and where you are educated is none of my business...as long as you do not force others to do so....good for you if that gets you peace. Sangh Parivar does not have an ideology of hate..it has an ideology of stupidity..it hates women in trousers who go to office more that it hates Muslims. Follow the rules, pay your taxes and be a productive citizen...you will be the mainstream. But if you decide to be a burden on the tax payer, only protest against attrocities on Palestinians or Iraqis (and not bother when Indians get killed anywhere in India)/burn books and continue to keep isoloated from the rest of the country - clearly you have decided not to be part of the mainstream. “Would I be considered in mainstream India if I have beard/skull cap and have madrassa education and opposes Sangh parivar idealogy of hatred”

I can speak for myself…whats you wear and where you are educated is none of my business…as long as you do not force others to do so….good for you if that gets you peace. Sangh Parivar does not have an ideology of hate..it has an ideology of stupidity..it hates women in trousers who go to office more that it hates Muslims. Follow the rules, pay your taxes and be a productive citizen…you will be the mainstream. But if you decide to be a burden on the tax payer, only protest against attrocities on Palestinians or Iraqis (and not bother when Indians get killed anywhere in India)/burn books and continue to keep isoloated from the rest of the country – clearly you have decided not to be part of the mainstream.

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