IM Mods, could you please make sure that comments pertain to the discussion so that it doesn’t get side-tracked and remains ON TOPIC? Thanks.

Babri Mosque issue is past and let it be so, if babri cause is right for muslims then Hindus have the same right too as their temples were descarted, they were plundered, killed by those aurangzebs and the likes of gahznavis……..Hindus can start the same jehadi battle on these lines too. Does it mean that only history serves the Muslims of India and not Hindus? They are dead wrong.

I am with you totally. Muslims HAVE to pursue education with a PASSION. Else, what they say simply will not carry weight. After that they have to stand up for themselves in a logical and cohesive fashion.

And they need to start as of yesterday..

The following are placards from muslim rallies in europe.

“Islam will dominate the world”
“Behead those who insult Islam”
“Europe take some lessons from 9/11″
“Europe you will pay. Your 9/11 is on it’s way”
“Europe is the cancer, Islam is the answer”
“Blasphemous cartoonist must be hanged”
“Massacre those who insult Islam”
“Exterminate those who slander Islam”
“Europe, you will pay, extermination is on the way”
“Be prepared for the real Holocaust”
“Slay those who insult Islam”
“Butcher those who mock Islam”

don’t u think the europeans have shows 100 times more restraint than muslims would if a non muslim were to display such placards in a muslim country? and how is such muslim behaviour is helping the cause of muslims? the fact is there are too many brainwashed angry muslims in europe who talk to dominatin geurope by the end of this century – if they are not stopped by muslims, then the europeans will have to do it. afterall, europeans are not sissies, just more civil.

The reality is that in Non Muslim countries, Muslims are treated far better than Non Muslims are in Muslim countries. Very honestly, Muslims need to stop cribbing and start participating. I refer to MUSLIM countries because they are just that, they are not genuinely ISLAMIC except Iran and that too, partially.

When we talk of Muslims being achievers in the new millennium, their islamicity is merely coincedental.

Muslims need to be dynamic, upright, thirsty for knowledge, and with a scientific temperament, as they were during the early days of Islam

Subsequent incidents, such as the murder of the Dutch film director Theo van Gogh and the Madrid and London bombings further exacerbated prejudices and fuelled more incidents of hostility and aggression.

Syed, this seems to be the crux. When incidents like these happen and religion (Islam) is given as the justification, and moderate Muslims living in Europe do not do enough to denounce and renounce fundamentalist elements in their ummah, is it any surprise to you that “Islamophobia” exists? That seems to be a very normal human reaction to events. Doesn’t make it right, but it is there.

I also think that any and all criticism of Islamist behavior is labeled as “Islamophobia” (or a Jewish conspiracy) when in many places, the criticism is valid and necessary. Maybe the Muslim community in Europe should introspect some more and not reflexively label all criticism as “Islamophobia.”

When Muslims criticize Bush’s policies or the “decadent” West, should that be labeled as “Westphobia”?

Another point to consider: many non-Muslim minorities also move to, and live in Europe. How many problems do you think they have integrating, and how does that compare to Muslims? Perhaps the Muslim community moving to Europe can look to other non-Muslim communities and see what they’re doing to integrate.

Just some thoughts.

However, engagement and participation also need encouragement and support from mainstream society that needs to do more to accommodate diversity and remove barriers to integration.

Syed, could you please explain this point some more? What kind of encouragement and support are you looking for? What kind of barriers are there?

It is also to be noted that discrimination against Muslims and Islamophobia are entirely incompatible with European values, and to urge European Member States to fully and effectively implement EU laws against discrimination and racism.

That is correct. The European countries also
1. have a secular constitution,
2. give equal rights to women, and
3. have laws against discrimination of gays and lesbians.

Would you like to explain the position of Muslims – who move to Europe – on these points, and the general attitude of Muslim community when it comes to these three issues? And I’m not looking for quotations from Qur’an, but rather ground realities. Thanks.