For some reason, there isn’t a response from you. Not that I want to get into another prolonged back & forth argument, but here’s another classic inconsistency from elst. One that poor old me spotted, not the scholars I linked to earlier.

he runs down that Beacon of Secular Hope, Teesta Setalvad by saying (in his propaganda mouthpiece):

…Mrs. Teesta Setalwad, is a convert from secular Hinduism to Islam, and she has the typical zeal of the convert.

This “typical zeal of the convert” that he uses to run-down Teesta, I suppose should apply to Dharmendra & Hema (adherents to the bjp’s ideology) as well…??

There you have it! elst’s very evident lack of bias, which is the hallmark of any genuine scholar!

Need more? Just ask.

I logged on at this hour precisely to blog this horrific incident!

What I do not understand is why you chose to sully the word secular by using it here where it has no context…?

Every sincere person always has detractors who take off on him without provocation. Don’t worry about it. Just chill

http://ibnlive.in.com/news/pwd-engineer-killed-up-govt-saves-face/81290-3.html

Manoj Gupta was killed when MLA Rajneesh Tiwari’s men allegedly barged into his house in Auraiya – 250 km from state capital Lucknow – locked his wife in the bathroom and then beat him up. Gupta was then taken in a critically injured state and dumped at the local police station by Tiwari. The engineer’s relatives allege that Tiwari was demanding Rs 50 lakh for Mayawati’s birthday celebrations.

While you debate on “terrorism” in Islam – the goons are much more practical. For them killing and money is the end – the excuse is sometime religion and sometime “social justice”. Its just plain “might is right” and “defunct” police system. If you have any intent to act rather than ” setttle scores on message boards” you might want to decide where you need to act.

http://ibnlive.in.com/news/kasab-pleads-with-pakistan-for-legal-aid/81259-3.html
In his letter he had claimed that he and the other terrorists who had been killed in the attacks were Pakistani and had sought a meeting with the Pakistan High Commission. However, Islamabad did not pay heed to his request, saying he was not a Pakistani.

Pakistan denies about its citizens in Indian soil – Kasab and even its citizens on its soil – Maulana Masood Azhar. Thats the “Islamic” Pueland for you. Do you still think these people fight for religion?

Why are you mounting a defence when its not even required?

I really don’t know how to respond to this one. You’ve gone around is circles throughout this discussion & most of all in this comment. And why would one do that if he had a few straight points to make?
[....]

Anyway, the could-would-did-didn’t semantics notwithstanding, I’ll honour your comment with a response.
Right from comment # 55 onwards, you’ve been … assuming, jumping to conclusions, misreading, misquoting, dithering etc. Anyone who goes through this thread will be able to see that. [...]

If you have [...], you will know my propensity to provide link after link as proof. I offered the Baburnama reference. If you were really interested in the truth, you’d have gone & picked up a copy. The fact is that you’re not keen enough on knowing the truth. Your motive currently is only to undermine a fellow-commenter, only because he’s your ideological opposite & stands for equality rather than segragation.
Unfortunately for you, a) it isn’t that simple & b) as you can see, there are others who agree with what I have to say.

One thing you’re half-right about. I do harbour disapproval of hindutva. I believe it is something that needs to perish & I am driven by that cause. Just like Gandhiji & others was driven by their disapproval of untouchability & racial-segragation & the right to Swaraj.
I too hope to succeed.

I’ve asked you earlier, if I remember correctly, “What exactly are you driven by?”

[...]
_________

@ 77:

If you put your points 1 & 2 together, you’ll see the picture emerge.
Only the right-wing seems to mention elst & suggest that he has a point.
elst is very easy to refute. All I needed to read were 3 of his articles on bharatvani to know that he was inconsistent from one article to the next.

But let’s not talk about my opinion. Since you have yourself chosen to dig deeper for the truth, I am happy to be an instrument in providing it to you. They say, careful of what you ask for. Here you go:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koenraad_Elst#Reviews
http://communalism.blogspot.com/2003_03_01_archive.html

Decide for yourself whether the man is meant to be taken seriously.

If however you do come back in defense of the man, I doubt if I will be able to help you anymore.

[...] – Comments Edited

Have you considered that one of the reasons why criticism of elst doesn’t abound, is because no one took him seriously. Because he was ignored by all historians of repute?

Have you considered that one of the reasons why criticism of elst doesn’t abound, is because no one could refute his facts. Because all historians of “repute” know that someone challenged them and the game is up?

#2

For example when you type in “criticism of elst” in Google, ALL you see are right-wing hindutva links! If that doesn’t tell you something, let me know.

So these are the reasons for your …. reaction at the mention of Elst, instead of actually reading what he wrote and evaluating the contents for yourself? Are you for real??? Is this your standard of discussing an issue (“all are Hindutva links – that should tell you something” – that’s the same as someone saying “A Koran was found in Mohammad Atta’s car, so that should tell you something about Koran”); instead of reading up on it, trying to understand it and then discussing the pros and cons of the contents? Go read something and learn some logic before you discuss issues. … [comment edited]

1con,

In your hurry to write a response as your knee was frantically jerking soon after you came across the word “Elst” in my comment, you failed to notice that nowhere did I quote Elst. The reason I mentioned him and Gautier was in response to your mention of Baburnama, instead of you quoting relevant sections from it or giving me some links that backed up your earlier claim. I also used “could” in my sentence, but then again, you haven’t really shown any maturity even after so many months that you understand what others are trying to say or understand their point, or understand logic. What seems to drive you is a hatred of Hindutva, and there’s no point of having a dialog when someone like you keeps jumping to conclusions. If you choose to respond, that’s your prerogative, but don’t expect me to respond back to your shoddy understanding of logic – it’s a waste of my time.

For example when you type in “criticism of elst” in Google, ALL you see are right-wing hindutva links!

If that doesn’t tell you something, let me know.

It wasn’t a deflection at all. If you’re so keen on an exact quote from Baburnama, you’ll just have to wait until I visit my Sister as she’s reading the book currently. Do you even remember why you want a Baburnama quote? Because if you did, that information isn’t difficult to validate even on the Internet.

Have you considered that one of the reasons why criticism of elst doesn’t abound, is because no one took him seriously. Because he was ignored by all historians of repute?
That said, my search is on. I will present a link in accordance with my record.

Heard of it from you. Looked it up. Thanks for the reference. Your point being?

1con, ever heard of petitio principii? You should look it up. Thanks for the entertainment.