“He who troubleth his own house shall inherit the wind. And the foolish shall be servant to the wise.” Proverbs 11:29
In a very important development in Indian history, members of a few Parivar groups were arrested and are to be charged with carrying out terror attacks. These charges are yet to be proved in a court of law, but it is clear that they stood to gain most from the terror strikes, as it stoked up communal feelings and discredited the congress government. Nobody will risk the wrath of Hindutva brigade without solid proof given their political power, and the political backing of the BJP.
Of late, Parivar members were caught making bombs at too many places too many a times. Then, it was the Hindutva brigade who stood to gain from the terror attacks if these attacks can be passed off as acts of Muslims. “Islamic” terror, they knew, will tear the social fabric and frighten the common Hindu (Muslims too, but that doesn’t matter). Then the common Hindu shall fall for communal propaganda much more easily. That will drive people to vote for right wing parties like BJP. They know that every bomb blast of that kind will invariably be blamed on Muslims which is exactly what happened. Many newspapers and TV channels started analyzing why Muslim youth are taking such turn*, totally blacking out events at Nanded etc.!
Hindutva brigadiers were heard talking about tit-for-tat terror strike. (They would have called for attacks on minorities no matter what. They just needed a pretext.) We know what happened at Nanded. Muslim traditional dresses and fake beard were found at the site of the blast. The reason was clear enough- so that the blame goes to the Muslims. Now, if it really was tit-for-tat, won’t they have liked to take responsibility of the blast they were planning? And say- if you kill us we’ll kill you? That’s not what happened.
After her arrest, Pragyan Singh Thakur has become an embarrassment for the Parivar. Not because she did what she did. Many Parivar members and sympathizers support these attacks on Muslim targets. But because she was found out. At first they denied association with her. When that was blown away, BJP said that they do not endorse such acts. The Parivar said-can you even imagine a Hindu doing such act? The inherent communalism in it is clear- you can imagine a Muslim doing it, but not a Hindu.
From a member of ABVP, Pragyan grew to become a firebrand member of Parivar. She had close contact with senior BJP leaders (like the late Laxman Singh Gaur), VHP leaders (Swami Avdheshanand) and others in the Parivar. I myself have attended events at RSS shakhas, and know exactly what is taught in such places. What they say in public is no less than call to bring down the Indian constitution. If there were the political will, what they say in public is enough to put them behind bars or ban them altogether.
Nor is this (bomb blasts) actually a “response” to anything. The previous terror strikes are only pretext which justifies these attacks to the foot soldiers of the Parivar. In public, however, they never accepted that they support such “tit-for-tat” [sic] attacks after the attacks took place. It has been their agenda from the beginning to intimidate and dominate over all those who do not agree with them. By hook or by crook. They are willing to kill innocent people for political gain.
All this is about political power. Had their plans succeeded, the congress will be on the backfoot for failing to curb terror. More Muslims could be put behind bars as “terrorists” nobody will ask questions about “encounters.” Their dream is to repeat the Spanish Inquisition; and we the responsible citizen must stop them. These organizations must be banned once the charges against them are proved, and the foot soldiers/cannon fodders of these terror organizations should be brought to mainstream by offering them jobs.
To solve this problem on a larger scale, we should realize that our society is deeply fragmented and unfair. Disadvantaged people feel angry at that. Terrorists grab these people and channel their anger against another community. We can’t solve this problem permanently with guns and jails. We need to address the underlying social problems (like unfair distribution of wealth, power and status, lack of education etc.) to minimize the chances of such terror. This is a human problem, and needs humane solution.
*Some Muslim youth may harden, point is- that’s not all. There are others among the Hindus/ Sikhs/ Christians taking the path of hatred.
Sshama
Clearly you are very excited about your religion. Though tempted, my committment to office overrides reacting to your huge mail – howsoever offensive I may find it. Perhaps I have matured enough to handle my emotions better than before.
My belief is that the more one reads about others, the more one gets to appreciate anothers point of view. So if you want to understand Hinduism, please do refer to people who have the both the knowledge and the maturity to explain it to you. At the end of the day, if you read something without bias or hate you will begin to appreciate what it stands for. A religion that has evolved through 5000 years surely can pass your high standards.
However, if I may add…if you want to insult anyone…you need not understand anyone, you just want to shout louder and fouler. Which, IMHO, you are doing in ample measure.
Your very statements are so misinformed and superficial (I said your statements, not you)…that it suggests that either you have been misled or want to mislead. More than that if you are an Indian (of any religion), then the ancient Vedas are as much part of your heritage as mine. So if you want to respect your motherland and forefathers; even if they were from a different religion, please do not insult what they believed in even if you do not want to understand them.
@Sudie:- Your comments did not bring any new information to me as they were totally emotional, like saying respect your culture, heritage blah blah, though I want to notify only one point here. Let me give you a metaphorical example. Suppose you are on the seat of a judge and have to pass a judgement for your father (I am sorry cant give any better example) who has done crime. Will you let him go scott free, just coz you respect him????? Justice doesnt work like that friend, you have to call a spade a spade regardless how close it is to you or how respect you give.
“Clearly you are very excited about your religion.”
Thnx. this is a compliment to me.
“Perhaps I have matured enough to handle my emotions better than before.”
But still you need more training in that coz you are confused between religion and culture, or may be Hinduism itself is confused. And your emotions very clearly peeping out though there was no rational approach anywhere in your comments. Just coz you respect something you wanna force others to ignore its shortcomings. Every one has the right to analyze and express their freedom of expression. As my advice to you is the same as it for niceguy….’Truth wont change for you, you need to change for the Truth’
“So if you want to understand Hinduism, please do refer to people who have the both the knowledge and the maturity to explain it to you.”
I have already read and learned a lot about hinduism from world famous scholars like sri sri Ravi shankaar, Osho etc. And today the most reasonable scholar of hinduism is Dr. Zakir, and he has challenged all the hindu scholars of the world to prove him wrong. He had many successful debates with many hindu scholars like Shankaracharya, Sri sri Ravi shankar etc. Now you cant say that you have more knowledge than Shankaracharya or Sri sri Ravi shankar or some x,y, z have more knowledge, if that is so, let that x,y or z come forward and have a debate with Dr. Zakir.
“A religion that has evolved through 5000 years surely can pass your high standards.”
A religion is never a religion which needs evolution or reformation. Only made made philosophies and discoveries needs evolution and reformations which often tends to take U-turn or waits for some one to proove it wrong.
“if I may add…if you want to insult anyone…you need not understand anyone, you just want to shout louder and fouler.”
If narrating some true facts and reasonably prooving them, sounds insults to you, I am afraid what is your definition for rebuking or abusing. Truth is always louder and fearless.
“Your very statements are so misinformed and superficial (I said your statements, not you)…that it suggests that either you have been misled or want to mislead.”
The same I could say about you. Dont make just statements but prove it.
“So if you want to respect your motherland and forefathers; even if they were from a different religion, please do not insult what they believed in even if you do not want to understand them.”
No one can judge others about their respect towards motherland etc.
Sshama
IMHO nor Islam nor Hindusim need confused judges like you nor moronic arguments from the likes of Dr Zakir Naik for its defence. Dr. Naik fails in the realm of common sense (his comments on the sex habits of Pigs….), forget religion. True spirituality coming from a genuine understanding of religion makes one humble and realise the immense knowledge one needs to acquire. Hinduism teaches us that path to the one true God are many and each can find ones own true meaning of it.
Forget Hinduism, my humble suggestion is that please revise your knowledge of Islam. The bad name that this great religion gets has lot to do because of statements coming from people like you.I feel I can apply a better use of my time for a productive purpose than indulge in a pointless argument. I’m a humble being who believes in earning an honest bread without passing a judgement on others. I come here to learn the point of view of others and perhaps get rid of my own prejudices. Reading your arguments makes me feel superior about Hinduism rather than the greatness of Islam – so it clearly does not work for me.
Sshama
Here is a dude who is reflecting your ideas..http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYKcqF1bL6w&feature=related
“If God would write a book, he will make sure people are born with the understanding of the language.”
Do you mean to say Vedas are written in some alien language….I dont understand why dont you first apply your childish logics on your own sides before hurriedly throwing over it to me.
So you agree, that just like Vedas, Quran was also written by humans.
God can send revealation in any language, it is our duty to read that book.
So God, doesn’t want illiterate people to earn salvation – how discriminatory??
C 54 , V 17 ( Easy Quran) : We have indeed made the Quran easy to be understood and remembered
That’s why you couldn’t answer my such a simple question.
C 2 ,V 121 ( Study Quran) : Those to whom we have given the book , study it as it should be studied . They are the ones that after studying it believe in it. Those who reject faith in it are losers themselves.
Wow, so you are saying, Quran does not give you scope of freedom to question it’s view. Good luck!! It sounds more like a dictator. No wonder only dictators are more successful in Muslim countries.
C 19, V 97 ( Easy in your language) : We have made the Quran easy in your language
proves that author of Quran was referring to people who understand Arabic = Quran is not for whole mankind.
As far as your question goes I won’t reply it, but you yourself read Quran, you will get the point as I told you all answers are present in Quran. Whether it is heaven or hell, it is justified.
HAHAHA. No thanks. If after reading 5 times everyday, you couldn’t answer.. I have more important things to do. I am completely convinced – you do not know the answer. Perhaps you go check with your Dr. Zakir Naik. I am sure even his logic will fail here.
Strange that Hinduism though a eternal principle for the whole mankind….mankind doesnt know what are the principles of hinduism….. how many Gods are there in hinduism….how many books
are there in hinduism……..or do you wanna say the principle of hinduism is that ‘dont follow any principles’ ,Indeed interesting. Strange that you say that ‘principle of hinduism’ then you go to
say there should be no book of principles. So many contradictions, absurdities, conflicts, oppositions, contradisctinctions, confusions.
My friend you are right – you are actually confused – confusing freedom of thought with conflicts and contradictions. Free societies are made up on contradictions and oppositions. People who are closed in a shell only get confused by free thinking. I am not amazed you are confused by Hinduism. When you come out of your shell of “my religion is best”, you will find that your Actions and Intents (Karma) are counted, not how you pray to God (rituals) or how many times you read a book.
Rigveda 10.90.12 states: “The Brahmana was created from the mouth , his two arms were made Kshatriyas, his two thighs were the Vaishya, and from his two feet the Shudra was born”.
Weren’t you really knowing this verse, come on, how can you be so ignorant. So there is a contradiction between Bhagwad gita and Vedas.
I am glad you raised this question (very typical of Hinduism bashing) because even lot of Hindus have doubts regarding CASTE SYSTEM. First let me tell you – Discriminating people on the basis of their caste is as equal crime as discriminating by religion (as you are doing). The present view of Caste system is not what was present in earlier Vedic time. It was because of corruption and greediness that we see the wrong habits cropped in. Also, thanks to Britishers/Muslim Invaders who tried to misread the Vedas through the glasses that fitted their own perception of Slavery system.
The original system was called Varna System. It was based on the person’s ability and skills as mentioned in Sri Bhagwat Gita – let me quote once again:
Ch 4 V 13:
The four divisions of human order were created by me according to difference in quality, activities, and aptitude; although the creator of this, know me as a non-doer being immutable.
If you are really keen, pls refer http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Varna_in_Hinduism
So my friend, Varna system was formed for division of labor based on the attribute of a person; not for discrimination. Let me give you a real life scenario – At work there are people – Director, Administrators, Managers, and Laborers. Director gives guidance to the company (mouth of the company), Administrators (arms of the company) provides help to all the departments, Managers (thighs of the company) – makes sure things are done in their respective department, and finally Laborers are the actual workers (feet of the company) who move the company forward.
Let me ask you a smart question – Can anyone move forward without their feet??
Whatever the case maybe, today, Hinduism condemns discrimination based on caste, gender and religion. That’s the beauty of the System based on Eternal Principles that is dynamic as compared to any Religion that is rigid.
I am sure you are well aware of lot of Hadiths contradicting with Quran.
Banning girl education in SWAT is individual consciousness. Saddam Hussein dictatorship was also an indivisual consciousness. List is endless.”
But whats your problem in this???? After all Hinduism believes in individual consciousness….so whats wrong if someone practices his individual consciousness, after all paths are true, so whats wrong in the above mentioned political incidents.
So you support all these acts!! What a shame!! These are all wrongful acts and no person in rightful mind will support or justify as you are doing.
Hinduism does teach the freedom of individual consciousness in the light of Dharma (Righteousness). Again you are mixing up freedom with irresponsibility. Perhaps, you think there’s no difference?? This is really disgusting of you – someone who claims to be an avid reader of Quran. That’s the difference between our education and consciousness.
This is something quite laughable and not worth giving any response except that Hinduism which doesn’t have even a universal God (there are 33 crores gods in Hinduism) and which has so many castes and sub castes within the borders of one country, whose language is a dead language which is no more spoken even in a single country (let alone whole universe), there are no specific principles, the universe doesn’t know about it, which itself has divided its countrymen into 4 major castes, people are leaving it and joining other folds but still you claim its universal, may be we require to change the definition of ‘being universal.’ If you boast on the basis of a single statement that ‘world is one family’ its again very trivial coz all religions said so and even a layman can tell it in his theory but that doesn’t make that theory universal and morever I have already shown you the verse from Vedas which divides society in castes. Whatever, but I really pity the desperation and the eagerness of hindus yearning for making Hinduism universal, but as it said, you can’t fight the moonlight.
I can only smile at your ignorance. One thing is for sure you won’t be able to earn your living performing at stand-up comedy.
My friend all I can say is – your ego that is stopping your eyes to look beyond one religion – this state of mind is clearly mentioned in Mahabharat as – “VinashKaale Vipreet Buddhi”. Your inability to answer my simple question proves this. I am convinced that you have given up and only beating around the bushes. So next time before replying to me, kindly do some research and come with an answer.
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@Sudie:-”IMHO nor Islam nor Hindusim need confused judges like you nor moronic arguments from the likes of Dr Zakir Naik for its defence.”
I am afraid your personal bashing gets revealed clearly. Kindly take the trouble of proving your statements coz your persoanl opinions carries the importance of weighless feather without proofs.
“Dr. Naik fails in the realm of common sense ”
May be that’s the reason no hindu scholar has accepted his challenge.
“Hinduism teaches us that path to the one true God are many and each can find ones own true meaning of it. ”
You are just parrot fashioning the already worn out statement. Kindly go through my previous comments where I have already proved this wrong. Its not working on me.
“The bad name that this great religion gets has lot to do because of statements coming from people like you.”
I dont think Islam is having a bad name or gets a bad name, coz muslims and non-muslims both respects each others faith and can live peacefully with each other in complete harmony, unless there is a political stunt to disrupt this harmony.
“I come here to learn the point of view of others and perhaps get rid of my own prejudices.”
Its really strange that everytime you talk about controlling prejudices when I find you typically prejudiced and closed minded. (sorry for persoanl remarks)
“Reading your arguments makes me feel superior about Hinduism rather than the greatness of Islam ”
Greatness and lowliness of anything can be understood by an unbiased approach and by opening ones mind and soul.
@Niceguy:-”So you agree, that just like Vedas, Quran was also written by humans. ”
I agree both the books were written but Quran is the only God written book available today.
“So God, doesn’t want illiterate people to earn salvation – how discriminatory??”
How strange that all the universities and educational levels providing degrees are discriminatory against illiterates. Thats why Quran not only encourages education but also stresses importance of knowledge.
“Wow, so you are saying, Quran does not give you scope of freedom to question it’s view. Good luck!! It sounds more like a dictator. No wonder only dictators are more successful in Muslim countries.”
Quran does give freedom of choice but also clearly asserts the truth. Quran shows you the right path and then gives you the freedom of choice of accepting it or rejecting it. Quran gives you the choice of either sacrificing your ego, controlling your prejudice and your whims and fancies and submitting to God or becoming a rebel against God by becoming slaves to your desires and wishes. Those who submit their will, attain salvation. Truth is always dictating.
“That’s why you couldn’t answer my such a simple question. ”
Quran can answer all the questions.
“proves that author of Quran was referring to people who understand Arabic = Quran is not for whole mankind.”
Sacrifice, submission, and love for God doesnt know the barriers of language, culture or country borders.
“HAHAHA. No thanks. If after reading 5 times everyday, you couldn’t answer.. ”
I told I would not answer and not ‘could not’ answer. I hope you are aware of the diffeence. I must confess I feel the experience of arguing with a child coz you are very eager to derive conclusions according to your wishes.
” am completely convinced – you do not know the answer. Perhaps you go check with your Dr. Zakir Naik.”
Prove the satements.
“you are actually confused – confusing freedom of thought with conflicts and contradictions.”
Its not me who is confused, but its you who is confused. Thats why you can see many sects and religions created in hinduism. The reason is only confusion coz many contradict each other in ideologies and it is well known that there is no universal or standard principles of hinduism. And more often principles of hinduism takes either a U-turn or needs to be reformed and there are many reformers and reformations in hinduism. This is the result of so many confusions, contradictions and contradisticntions in hinduism.
“Free societies are made up on contradictions and oppositions. ”
I agree. But free societies are also made of precise ideology, firm foundation and well disciplined way of ideological life and a definite approcah to socio-economico-political fields.
“When you come out of your shell of “my religion is best”, ”
Its not my personal cliam. Quran itself proclaims thus.
“This day have I perfected your religion for you, completed My favour upon you, and I have chosen for you Islam as your religion.” (Qur’an 5:3)
“If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (submission to God), never will it be accepted of him.” (Qur’an 3:85)
This is explicitly declared by Almighty in his book. If one submits to God’s will he achieves salvation otherwise not. Its just like a teacher teaching the correct answer to the students and warning them of writing any wrong answers in exams coz it will not be accepted and wont fetch them any marks. If any student disobeys the teacher he does it at his own risk with full freedom of choice.
“you will find that your Actions and Intents (Karma) are counted,”
How my arguments in any way are different than this. All religions speak this axiom. So whats the point???
“how you pray to God (rituals) or how many times you read a book.”
How come your actions in any way are independent to your being God-conscious. Actions and intentions rely only on guidance, knowledge and discipline in a broad sense.
@Niceguy:- “The original system was called Varna System”
Lets analyze varna system based on logic and rationality.
“Varna system was formed for division of labor based on the attribute of a person; ”
Varna system was based on division of labor
1.Note the word division and its no different form the word discrimination. So do you mean to say God discriminated the very style of birth of humans on the basis of labor???? Great!!!
2. If that is the case why did not God mention it in the vedas that the discrimination is strictly on the basis of labor????
3.If at all agreed that the discrimination was on the basis of labor, but in what sense it is related to the different methods and styles of creation????
4. From which part of body were americans, africans, europeans, asians, chinese, mongloids, australians etc. were born. This shows hinduism was limited within the geographical borders of India.
5. If hinduism is universal why are hindu gods wear indian traditional dresses, why they speak indian native language, why they dont look like greek or african???? Does this prove hinduism is universal or vice versa. Ponder over it.
6.Why were not all the four castes born only from one part of body. Why weren’t all born from mouth or feet??? Still it would had not been a hindrance to the great philosophy of varna system.
7. “Let me ask you a smart question – Can anyone move forward without their feet?? ”
Can you pls pass on this precious advice to the dalits, may be it will reduce their grievances to some extent and lets see how many accept it. Why werent the brahmins born out of feet???? If feet are so very important why doesn’t you become feet of the society and become a dalit or why doesnt brahmins become the so called benevolent feet of the scoiety and convert to dalits. Pls be practical before presenting such shallow arguments and your double standards can be easily revealed. And morever I am amazed to hear such arguments from educated guys like you, who in the attempt of safeguarding a pre-historic dogma can sound so unreasonable.
8.Does not God know in advance that such a bizarre style of creating humans will give rise to the most disgraced and degraded ideology of “casteism” human history has ever seen. Or may be the writer of vedas was ignorant about the omniscient and omnipotent qualities of God and could not comprehend that such a weird style of creation of man is not the way of God Almighty who is absolute, flawless and unregrettable in his style of creation. Morever it doesnt make any sense at all.
9.Has God already decided who will do which job??? Is not there any freedom of choice to select ones own job or occupation???? What if a shudra wanted to do the job of brahmin and vice versa???
10. Does God have a human like body and organs like mouth, arms, thighs, feet etc.????
This is utter nonsense that God can make people differently thus giving them a permanent life time impression that they are born unequally. This is nothing but a very clear form of fabrication of a deliberately postulated dogma particularly by one section of the society to announce its self proclaimed dominancy and superiority in the society. How many dalits will ever accept this teachings of vedas???? No wonder one can find in the history of India dalits have left and are still leaving the fold of hinduism in hordes. If the teachings of vedas were really so infallible as you want me to believe, then why did great men like Buddha, Charak, Kapil, Panini, Mahavir, Ambedkar, Guru nanak etc. questioned its authenticity and left the fold of hinduism?????? Answer me. Am I the only one who is doubtful about such teachings of vedas???? No. All great thinkers and reformers from the history of India have doubted the teachings of vedas.
“your ego that is stopping your eyes to look beyond one religion ”
I have already looked beyond one religion, but not convinced, as many of its own followers themselves are leaving it.
“I am convinced that you have given up and only beating around the bushes.”
This is actually your state. As far as beating bushes is concerned, I am logically providing supports to all my claims. Prove me wrong logically instead of personal bashing.
Kindly note the way God Almighty actually describes creation of mankind in his book:
“O mankind! If ye have a doubt about the Resurrection(consider) that We created you out of dust, then out of sperm, then out of a leech-like clot, then out of a chewed-like lump of flesh, formed and unformed, in order that We may manifest (Our power) to you; and We cause whom We will to rest in the wombs for an appointed term.” (Quran 22: 5) .
No wonder this verse is used in the field of embryology by eminent embroyologists for research. Check this.
God not only signifies common style of creation of all mankind but alos points out unity and equality among mankind by claming their common parenthood.
O mankind! reverence your Guardian-Lord, who created you from a single person (Adam), created, of like nature, His mate, and from them twain scattered (like seeds) countless men and women;- reverence Allah, through whom ye demand your mutual (rights), and (reverence) the wombs (That bore you): for Allah ever watches over you. (Quran 4:1)
http://www.islamicmedicine.org/embryoengtext.htm
@SShama
“Quran is the only God written book available today.”
My friend if you want to consider the author of Quran to be God.. it is your choice.
“Thats why Quran not only encourages education but also stresses importance of knowledge.”
Including Girls education in Swat region also?
“C 2 ,V 121 ( Study Quran) : Those to whom we have given the book , study it as it should be studied . They are the ones that after studying it believe in it. Those who reject faith in it are losers themselves.”
By telling people who do not want to believe in Quran that they are Losers – This is nothing but to force people to study it and believe it, instead, it should have said – those who have doubt are welcome.
C 19, V 97 ( Easy in your language) : We have made the Quran easy in your language
Sacrifice, submission, and love for God doesnt know the barriers of language, culture or country borders.
My friend since God doesn’t know the barriers of language whereas the author is claiming to restrict himself to Arabic only it shows author is not God. For example: Yoga is a widely practiced activity irrespective of language, culture or country borders.
“I told I would not answer and not ‘could not’ answer. I hope you are aware of the diffeence.”
I fail to understand, you can write such a long blog, but can’t answer one word. How about you make a sacrifice by shedding some ego and answer the question instead of beating around the bushes. Your not answering – is the PROOF that you do not know the answer.
“And more often principles of hinduism takes either a U-turn or needs to be reformed and there are many reformers and reformations in hinduism.”
I am very happy that Hinduism is humble enough to do reforms that made ways in the society (not only on papers but in action – as you said) if we find something Adharma. Can you give me one example where you see principle of Hinduism taking U-turn?
“Free societies are made up on contradictions and oppositions. ”
I agree”
Good, so my friend you should not have any ego issues in agreeing that since Hinduism is made up of (seemingly) contradictions and oppositions – it ensures Free society. Can you make a same claim about Quran – that it is made up of contradictions and oppositions?
““When you come out of your shell of “my religion is best”, ”
Its not my personal cliam. Quran itself proclaims thus.”
“If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (submission to God), never will it be accepted of him.” (Qur’an 3:85) ”
Now compare this with –
It is mentioned in Rig Veda “Ekam sad vipra bahudha vadanti” = Sanatan Dharma adherents believe that whatever path leads one closer to GOD is a valid path. That’s the basic philosophy of Sanatan Dharma. It does not say if you are Muslim or Christian or Jew or any other religion, you are a loser.
Where do you see True freedom? I’ll leave your decision to you and other readers.
@SShama
Lets analyze varna system based on logic and rationality.
“Varna system was formed for division of labor based on the attribute of a person; ”
Varna system was based on division of labor
You killed the logic in first line!! I said Varna system was formed FOR division of labor BASED ON the attribute (Guna = sattva (goodness), rajas(passion), tama(ignorance)) of a person. Division of labor does not mean discrimination. Just like we divide work at any organization or in a society or a country based on their attributes NOT by birth. So, God does not determine who will do what – the guna of a person decides. Some people are good in maths, some are good in chemistry. Would you say God has made them differently and decided their profession?
Valmiki (father of Sanskrit Literature), the composer of the Ramayana was a hunter by profession and Veda Vyasa, the composer of the Mahabharata and the compiler of the Vedas, was born into a fisherman family.
Lord Rama (Kshatriya) killed Ravana(Brahmin) with the help of Hanumana and vanar sena(which caste??). What do you think who do hindus worship?
Lord Krishna was raised in Yadava (shepherd heads).
In the religious scripture Mahabharata, Yudhisthira, in reply to Yama in the form of a Yaksha, without hesitation, said that it is conduct alone that makes one a Brahmin.
Vidura, famous in the Mahabharata, was born of a Shudra woman. But he had the power to summon the son of Brahma, from Brahmaloka, by mere thought.
There are numerous other examples that show that Caste based discrimination was non-existent in Vedic times. Just by quoting ONE Verse and claiming that Hinduism is only about Caste based discrimination – shows immaturity.
I can quote not one but lot of verses from Quran that shows discrimination based on religion and violence in the name of religion. Then, would you say that Islam is all about Violence and religion discrimination?
I can show you so many verses in Quran supporting Slavery. So do you think Slavery is good?
I can show you so many Verses showing discrimination based on Gender. Do you agree to all of them?
If God CAN TALK, curse people (33:64), be angry and happy just like humans why God can’t have human-like body?
My friend if God knew that human race is going to be so destructive and violent, I am sure He wouldn’t have created us. That’s where Law of Karma comes into picture – Your action is responsible for your consequences. God has created human being but is not responsible for our actions. See Gita Ch 4 V 13.
However in current time, I do not have any problem in accepting that discrimination based on Caste is a big problem in India. Nevertheless, I see the light, things are changing. I want to thank you for being a critic of caste based discrimination. I am sure with lot of reforms in current Hinduism we would be able to achieve the purity of Vedic Sanatana Dharma.
@Sshama
If you think Quran was the first book to talk about Embryology, how come Indian scriptures Upanishads written 1400 BC had more precise information? The whole one upanishad on this topic – Garbha Upanishad.
http://www.vedarahasya.net/garbha.htm
(easy version)
http://www.dharmicscriptures.org/GarbhaUpanishad_Kak.pdf
(detail with all the shlokas)
http://www.kem.edu/dept/anatomy/history.htm
@Niceguy
Relax man. Refrain from such long comments. You are not going to convince anyone who does not want to communicate. Why do you need to advertise the correctness of your religion?
I would like to point out, that unproductive discussions like these does tempt one to resort to religion bashing. It is important to know what you want to gain out of a discussion. sshama wants to prove that hinduism is barbaric and inferior, atleast this is what he is portraying. Therefore, no amount of explanation or friendly convincing is going to change his perception. Niceguy, I would suggest that you let it be. Don’t react.
Aatish:
Thank you.
The discussion on this thread has ran out of its usefulness. Comments on this thread are now closed.