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India-Pakistan Twenty 20 world cup final would be a dream come true for millions on this globe. And nothing could have surpassed the tense final moments of the final match. When Misbah tossed the ball of Joginder Sharma, many heart stopped beating. The catch by Sreesaanth put the heart beat back for Indians and perhaps took away few beats for Pakistanis. It was the most perfect finish we could have hoped for.
Shoaib Malik after the match remarked, or rather apologized, to the entire Muslims for losing! I found it extremely disturbing, to say the least. How justified is to associate the whole Muslim world with the cricket team of Pakistan? As a matter of fact this generalization is something very common among Pakistanis. They claimed to have acquired Nuclear weapon to protect the Muslim world when the first testing took place immediately after India tested its nuke. The basis being the only Muslim country to have acquired nuclear capability. The same logic was extended to cricket, Pakistan being the strongest among Muslim countries.
I found it so embarrassing when Malik mentioned this to Ravi Shastri as I was watching the match with my office colleagues. Murmurs immediately buzzed the extremely charged environment. People were critical how Malik was dragging the entire Muslim world into this. He gave a statement before the match that his team will definitely win as it is Ramdaan and his team members ‘jee jaan eek kar denge‘. Its a common perception that India can’t defeat Pakistan on Fridays as its an auspicious day for Muslims. Whenever a friend of mine used to mention this, I used to present my counter-argument based on the fact that India has more Muslims than Pakistan so why not India? I never got a reply back.Even though this statement might be considered frivolous in Pakistan and across the Muslim countries, well in case cricket does make any sense to any of them, it has serious repercussions in a country like India where Muslims are already seen with suspicion. Even though none of my colleagues commented about this statement but a doubt would definitely have burgeoned regarding my loyalties. A natural question would be, “who do you support?”Irfan Pathan should have objected to this as he was interviewed immediately after him. His clarification would have at least made Malik realise that his team was just representing Pakistan and why the hell is religion being brought into cricket?
I don’t want to be termed as a sadist who keeps looking for trifle things on an evening when India won the world cup and thus I don’t want this to be a harangue against the incident.
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Useless debat which I covered on my blog as well.
tinyurl.com/24ly9s
Pakistan has no history or culture beyond last 60 years. India has culture and history spanning 5000 years.
It is actually quite simple. Those who are not liberated in their mind and ideas become rigid and would never understand spirit of freedom, openness and liberal society. We have many such people in India as well , across religions. Pakistan has most of them.
It is quite futile to argue with such people.
Adnan:
I didn’t knew that people took cues from Feroz Khan on the thought process of Indian Muslims. Since when did Meera became the official ambassador of Pakistani Muslims?
Shabana Azmi and her family (Javed Akhtar, Kaifi Azmi, Shaukat Azmi et al) have been most critical of communalism in India and that is why they are hated equally by Hindu and Muslim extremists. Also, she has a pretty nuanced point of view regarding Pakistan and is involved in bringing the people of two countries together. It is quite ironical that you call her a Pakistan-basher.
Also, if you just look around this blog, you would realize the absurdity of your statement vis-a-vis their need for Pakistan bashing. Out of 318 posts at this blog, only 11 are categorized under Pakistan. The rest have been mostly critical of Indian government and its policies (or lack of them). It seems you chose to gloss over this important fact because it does not fits into your world-view.
Adnan, yes i read ur blog too. so of those who objected to Shaoib’s comment-
1) Indian muslims did it because they must prove their indianness by eagerly doing so
2) Hindu Indians – they are obsessed with pakistan, and must do it out of hatred
3) Pakistani muslims – leftists
4) Pakistani non muslims – well who?
Well u missed a christian indian here, but let me guess – zionist supporter? crusader? any will do.
thanks to righteous people like you, truth has prevailed.
@Adnan:
“Ironically, Pathan brothers were not taken care initially by Gujrat govt and riots got started in different parts of India after the victory and injured several Muslims but Salute to Indian Muslims who ra rather busy in Pakistan Bashing and whining about Malik’s statement and have no guts to raise voice against their own government. ”
I pity for you, Adnan.
Living continuously under military dictatorship you can only equate “raise voice against their own government” with bombings, violence and terror attacks. After all what else can you expect from those who have never known democracy? So you are right that from your point of view, Indian muslims have not raised voice against their government.
However, living in a democracy, Indian muslims know that the proper way to raise their voice is through ballot. And if the decision of ballot is not in their favour (as in case of Modi’s re-election), it is not a licence for violent means of protest but a call for greater preparation and campaigning in the next ballot.
@Asad,
However, living in a democracy, Indian muslims know that the proper way to raise their voice is through ballot. And if the decision of ballot is not in their favour (as in case of Modi’s re-election), it is not a licence for violent means of protest but a call for greater preparation and campaigning in the next ballot.
Very well said. Inshaallah:-), Christians also know this very voice in India. Incidentally all right wings worldwide have always damaged their very own people.(E.g Shiv sena’s love for Biharis, lungi walas etc only speaks the same language)…..
Its the language of hate that needs to be eradicated by education. Poor Kafeel Ahmed in London, had he known that what cruel death he will have and what a mess he will put his parents in…….he would never had allowed himself to get brainwashed……..incidentally the very same people who brainwashed him in UK elaboratedly advertised him as an Indian after the incident)………….yes he was an Indian who did not realise that people who speak the language of love can only be the best frends……..people filled with hate about everything will only mess up the world……..
Regards,
Manoj George
Asad mian read the following:
Clickety
True we live under dictatorship but we didn’t make life hell of our minorities just for sake of cricket.
Sing praises where it’s due. If you want, i could give you more URLs about riots after T20 finals. I wonder you guys have not enough strength to kick modi out? strange! what kinda secularism and democracy it is?
i am a roman catholic (goan) based in bombay, i have never faced any problem in india, since i am from bombay i have christain, hindus, muslim, jain,sikhs ect as neighbour, and they are from varied states in india from tamil to delhi, rajasthan to bengal, ( now when i think of it i dont have kashmiri/orrissa as my neighbour) we have lots of this local clubs where we celebrate all this various festival, ganpati/holi/navratri which are great fun as it is celebrated as a huge group, christmas is fun as we arganise dances ect, Eid is not as much fun, as an outing but its great eating time sweets and briyane ect , what i am trying to say is ppl should actually visit india stay in some area and then judge how india is, u will see a india which u were never aware of, all u see now is what ur govt wants u to see, same case in india to a certain extent
here my muslim friends when i ask them abt pak they say they would never want to stay in pak, not bec its a bad country but bec of fundementalism
yes in india they are discriminated in give jobs ect, but its not some thing u see or aware of, they can rise to any level as any of us in privete sectors,
christain are a minorty in india but we are doing very well, because education is very wide soread in out community, same case with sikhs/jain ect
if today muslims are suffering in india its because of pak terrosim in india, the various bomb blast, all this jaish e blah blah organisatin in pak, who openly say that destroying india is their goal and a few misguided muslim in india
i was once in a taxi driven by a pathan from NWFP, he was saying bhai in kashmir u have 700000 stron army, and they shoot the kashmiri indiscrimanetly, the moment they come out of their houses ect, u think if the army was doing that there woulld be a muslim kashmiri left in kashmiri, and the hindis kashmiri would be refugees in their own country, now think same cae in pak, and say the hindus or sikhs or christain were a majority in some district in pakistan, would they be able to throw out the muslims of that district assuming the muslim were an absolute minority the say 10/20%
the pak army would slaughter them,
i was reading some articles about christain in punjab ect writtem by paki journalist and their plight is pathatic, why are they targated they are not pro india, assuming hindi/sikhs are pro india in pak
u have to admit pak is very intolerant toward minority, and this minority is just 2/3 %, what would pak do if u had 20%+ minority there as in india
yes india is not perfect, we have lots of problems right wings ect but we are getting better, god willing we will improve faster if pak leaves as alone
my dear pakistani in short come to india (i know visa are difficult) see how the middle class muslim stay and then pass a judgement, remmember the poor suffer everywhere including pakistan, and it has nothing to do with religion, a rich man will always put down a poor man theat is human law accept it
the poor then can be a muslim/hindu/christain it does not matter
now a lil fact
we had quite a few muslim president/chief minister/speakers/cj ect
our top actors are and were muslim remm dilip kumar\
some of our best writer are/were muslim (monto hassan saadat the pak writer died in poverty in lahore, he was asked not to go to pak during partition, but he went and see the life had in lahore)
richest man in india is a muslim,
and so on
on the flip side the biggest criminal is muslim and he is sheltred by pakistan and the pakistani are proud of him ( dawood ibraham)
what does that show,
i remm an incident a few year ago, when india demanded around 20 indian wanted in india for criminal activity, pak refused and said they did not have then on their soild, and also alledge there were wanted pakistanis in india and we should hand them over, our minister just turned around and said give us their list we will give them to u, well we are still waiting for that list
if u want ur country to be great ur govt should rise over hiding these petty criminals,
u should know ur history, like pak history start from arab invasion of sind 1000 yers ago, before that there is nothing, a country which does not have history does not have a future
ciao
@asad
Well said. Societies which dont understand what democracy is , will never understand what liberty and plurality means. Democracy has its own problems but it works remarkably better than any other system men has even known, certainly better than one man dictatorship like in Pakistan or a mobocracy like in Myanmar.
Anybody wondered why Musharaf was taking so much interest in cricket , so much so that he called Sohaib before the final match and advised him how to play fearlessly!! We know he likes cricket but even then for a president who is almost on verge of being toppled, taking cricket match so seriously why!! Manmohan singh didn’t call Dhoni to inspire him, why!
Reason is that win in the final would have meant much much more to Musharaf than it would mean to India. For Pakistan it would have meant a doze of sedative to forget pains of its political system and doom that has engulfed the country. And Musharaf would have gone on overdrive of how a united team has defeated india …blah blah blah….
Somewhere in my heart I wanted pakistan to win that night just that they get little bit of happiness….uhem…
Adnan Siddiqi Ji said:”True we live under dictatorship but we didn’t make life hell of our minorities just for sake of cricket.”
Really? Well, we all the know the story of the Pakistani cricketer Yousuf Youhana, a Christian who converted to Islam for better career prospects and was disowned by his mother. A year back the Outlook magazine ran a cover story on how Hindu girls are abducted, forcibly married and converted to Islam. Look into your own backyard first before passing a judgement on others.
At least there is hope that Modi can be kicked out by the voters. In Pakistan, the Muslim equivalent of Modi, i.e. a person by the name of Mohd. Ali Jinnah is put on a pedestal as father of a nation and all his crimes glossed over. More people died within one day in the riots that Jinnah incited (the Direct Action Day riots in Calcutta) than all people who have died in riots in India in the 60 years since independence. Pakistan talking about safety and security of minorities, huh!!
@Adnan:
“Sing praises where it’s due. If you want, i could give you more URLs about riots after T20 finals. I wonder you guys have not enough strength to kick modi out? strange! what kinda secularism and democracy it is?”
Nothing strange in that. Why is it so hard to understand that democracy does not mean that you always get what you want?
If you did not know what democracy means, let me remind you that:
jamhooriyat woh tarze hukumat hai ke jis mein
insaan ko ginatee hain, tolaa nahin karte
Hi Adnan,
That very sight clickety is from Pakistan. That news has been blown up there. Yes, there can be some incidents but not like Hindus attacking Muslims as if Hindus were waiting for an opportune moment to come out and attack.
Okie, If for once I agree that the news is true, then what is your point. Should Asad get angry burn his own home and start building your castles.This is the exact psychology that I have seen pakistanis use on innocent Indians who go outside to make their living and find people giving them all sorts of stupid stories.
I am proud of having a president like Dr Abdul Kalam and if given a chance I will love to see him as a prime minister. I will also love to listen to your story the day this happens Adnan which will take some other sinister turn. I invite you to first have your house in order. First stop killing Muslims in Pakistan based on some other stories. I have not even given you examples about the plight of minorities in Pakistan. And if you have the gut to deny any of the point then let me know and I will give you ample evidence.
Your very tone knows to talk only about hate. First have a peep in the Holy Quran. I am sure you must have mugged it up but you have not understood it otherwise it would have shown in your messages here.
Regards,
Manoj George
@Kafir: Yusuf was not forced. Everyone is free to opt whichever religion he wants. I have audio mp3 of Yusuf in which he refuted all such lame claims and explained why and how he become a Muslim. Yousuf was Pakistani captain when He was a christian NOT a muslim so your rant don’t hold water.
as per your theory, we should have “Danish Khan” in team rather “Dinesh Keneria”.
@Manoje, Google is not rocket science. I can also gave Indian sources for same news on shariq’s personal blog. It’s just I found it on top. I do have haterd for such lame attitude by your countrymen. I have many Indian friends and they are muslims,hindus and even atheists but all of them are quite sensible and not fond of such sissy rants by Indians
Girish your lame rant is not credible enough to be answered, however we have a Zoo in Karachi named “Gandhi” Garden. Enough to realize importance of Gandhi for us?
Asad Mian, don’t teach me lesson of democracy, if Such democratic state can’t secure Muslims from riots like Gujrat then what’s the purpose of such democracy?
The points which I tried to make were:
Actually the valid points are:
1)Indians should mind their own business.
2)”Those who live in glasshouse don’t throw stones on others”. When your own hands are dirty in mishandling minorities(Muslims,Dalits etc) then it doesn’t make sense to criticize others. Specially Indian Muslims who are being screwed up more by their own Indian fellows than a Pakistani.
Your country doesn’t consist of Saints, lots of filth is present inside your country. Better you focus on your own issue rather poking nose in your neighborhood. Big econ and IT industry can’t make you Big nation unless you guys demonstrate good attitude. A friendly advise which shouldn’t be taken as offense.
have fun.
@asad
hey, nice to hear some urdu after a long time. I learnt urdu in school for 2 years (in all hindu, hindi medium school) and I use to love writing its beautiful script. And it was such a pleasure to listen to 1 hours of urdu program on All India Radio. Are there any good urdu programes! Sorry but programmes where liberal people talk about world an not just islaam! I like to sound of urdu.
I am slightly embarrassed at my characterization of Shahran Asim, he is more reasonable than he came across at first. We do have Adnan Siddiqui running away with the title though.
Indo-Pak debates usually degenerate into shouting matches, and by that standard, this one has been pretty civil.
We have enough problems on our own, since being better than Pakistan is far from a badge of honour
It would mean in most respects just that we are some way past the starting point or on the way, middling while they’re not quite started. Lets catch up to Western democracies, reduce the quantum of violence in our societies (eg. Bihar lynchings etc.) demand more acountability from our politicans and yes basically ignore Pakistan as far as possible.
I do wish Pakistan well. I think there is a civil society there, some amount of respect /space for minorities than is made out in our perception, some middling amount of women’s rights. Like India, there can be huge variation in these parameters btwn cities and rural /tribal outbacks. They just seem to not have even decent attempts at democracy going, and too much power with the military and with radical Islamists. I think many Pakistanis look at the corruption and other problems in India and dont find democracy so hot.
They need to solve their problems. Right now, some of them seem to derive some satisfaction from thinking that India is not that far ahead of them. Not reacting to their jibes may actually get them started on working on their problems. We could even have a healthy competition of growing economies.
I dont think siblings ever stop comparing and competing, and I dont expect this will happen with India-Pakistan either. But into their middle years, they do become comfortable with themselves and each other and reduce the edge of this scrap. We are comfortable with our identity and need to wait for Pakistan to get there. Perhaps not picking at their flaws may help.
regards,
Jai
Off topic: Urdu
Second Gaurav. I am a pucca Hindu, have never studied and dont really know Urdu but for the mix spoken in Indian Hindi, guess or google much of the meaning, but am in love with Urdu. Secular sites poetry/song (not lengthy discourses on Islam), in Urdu will be much appreciated.
Thanks,
Jai
@Adnan:
“Asad Mian, don’t teach me lesson of democracy,”
Why not? You come on this forum and start talking like an ignorant. So what’s wrong in getting some education?
“..if Such democratic state can’t secure Muslims from riots like Gujrat then what’s the purpose of such democracy?”
So, what’s your suggestion? Go for dictatorship and it will turn India into a heaven of peace, just like Pakistan?
“1)Indians should mind their own business.
2)â€?Those who live in glasshouse don’t throw stones on othersâ€?. When your own hands are dirty in mishandling minorities(Muslims,Dalits etc) then it doesn’t make sense to criticize others. Specially Indian Muslims who are being screwed up more by their own Indian fellows than a Pakistani.”
Well said.
Now turn it back towards yourself and stop poking your fingers in the issues of Indian muslims. If you or your players want to make any claims on behalf of muslim ummah, please restrict it to yourself. As the title of this thread very clearly says “hame aapka jee jaan nahin chaahiye”. How much more explicitly you want it to hear before it goes inside your brain?
To Jai
Perhaps Aligarians.com maintained by Mohib could be of interest to you
Hi Adnan,
Google is not rocket science but it is a search science also developed by an Indian and it is well and highly acclaimed……my source of articles were from wikipedia…I don’t want you to get angry over anything……….the only purpose of yours was that some Indian Muslim criticises India and accept what you say is truth……….Will you curse your mother if she slaps you? The only point is that even the richest man and countries on earth have some problems……….why can’t India have some? If brothers fight then why can’t there be problems between 2 communities…….If I criticise India based on some pakistani news will that prove me sensible?
You know in India if there is any tension between 2 communities it is never published as one community attacked other……… It only gets published as there was a fight between some people of 2 communities without naming anyone…….Just think how insecure the hindus in your country will be feeling with that bold news published as Hindus attacked Muslims….And that is also not the truth…You believe it because it is published in your media…please go to BBC or even to Al Jazeera….there will not be any such news….Also the impact on you….you have been boiling from the last one week thinking that this has happened and also angry because the muslims in india are not reacting…..now also understand who has been making sissy rants(Silly rants rather) if you even come closer to this truth…..if your child and my child throw stone on each other then it does not makes me, you, my country or your country villains…….
And i certainly appreciate you having reasoned that people should not poke into each other’s affair…I hope you live by this reasoning…Also finally Adnan Saab, after sikhs, Christians, Muslims you also realised that Dalits(Hindus) are also discriminated in India…is anyone else left and if everyone is discriminating against everyone then I guess it must have neutralised…..but just to give you some information which clickety might not have published Mayawati is a Dalit lady who has recently won the UP elections in India and is now emerging as a major political force in India……Next story please…..Yawn(Some good stories this time
)
Regards,
Manoj George
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